Curse

Chewbacca Defense · Aug 22, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

It's a well known fact that weapon skins scare mobs causing them to drop. It makes farming a lot easier when you have rare weapon skins.

Ice Imp #1: Dude that looks like a rare weapon skin.
Ice Imp #2: Damn! Why have the gods forsaken me?!! WHY!!
Guy with Rare Weapon Skin: Prepare to be vanquished!!
Ice Imps: NOOOOOoooossss!!! *dies*

Seissor · Aug 22, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

So you guys think its okay that ANET simply forgets about the game as long as there are new chapters?

I dont understand your rationale. What if Cantha was jipped like Tyria and then nightfall comes out? It's all okay and there's a clean slate?..

ANET said looooooooooong ago that they wont update Tyria directly anymore and that they'll focus on the most recent title and upcoming titles for GW.

Its no huge surprise, I was only surprised when Tyria got some new things with those green items etc.

Former Ruling · Aug 22, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal pho

On the back of the Prophecies Guide includes all the skin's names as well, including ones that I've never seen.(probably just removed)

Here are some:
-Sephis sword
-Titan's Axe
-Edron Hammer
-Dwarven Hammer
-Crusader's Sword
-Krytan Sword
-Rekki Blade
-Tribal Blade
-Wyvern Blade
-Longclaw

The unofficial Prima Guide's lists were often tiems based on VERY EARLY Beta tests and preemptive listings (before the actual weapons were rendered and added)

Anyway...People should refer back to my last post....There is nothing to fix...the name difference on the skins actually adds Depth to the game on a level and is justified in the lore.

YunSooJin · Aug 22, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Defense

I guess this argument is as similar as expecting Microsoft to update your Windows 95 after they released Windows XP. Or to upgrade your old 1960's VW Beetle with new mods after they released the new VW Beetle.

Essentially, most, if not all, companies in the world will stop supporting old products and most choose to leave defects/bugs in the field until they cause major problems, if they ever do.

The cost of adding enhancements and supporting any defects/issues for out-dated products incur an exponential cost on resources.

Unfortunately Prophecies is still being sold in stores and is not an 'old edition' of a continuing line of software.

Also Introducing new weapon skins in cantha would be the same as introducing new skins in Tyria, unless you're suggesting the platforms for the two campaigns are wholly different..-_-;;

Mournblade · Aug 22, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Well ANET has enough time on their hands to introduce a couple new skins for UW/FoW and Factions.

Obviously its not cutting into their bottom line in producing Nightfall, or they wouldnt be doing it, now is it?

So what's the big deal if they decide to legitimitize something they should have done long ago?

So it bothers you THAT MUCH that there is a krytan axe and a hand axe with the same skin that you'd rather ANet fix those than introduce totally new skins? I think you have it good to have nothing better to complain about.

Former Ruling · Aug 22, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I'll go AT LENGTH to prove this is a false argument, since he seems to be skipping any rational post up til now that calls out his ideas and just picks on the comments and quotes about Anet's Business Model because they are the easiest counter arguments to shoot down.

I'll take the Hand Axe, Krytan Axe, White Scythe thing further. The skin seems to be the standard small axe for a farmer or something in Kryta. If you live in Ascalon, you'd call this a "Krytan Axe" and this is what they are called alot of the time when they come from Hidden Stashes - This tells that the skin is normal for Kryta. If you LIVE in Kryta or are from there, you probably just know it as a normal "hand axe". Just like someone IRL might call something "An Old Indian Axe" - well if you WERE that old indian using the axe, you probably know it by more common and mundane terms - probably just "Axe" or the indian language equal. White Scythe comes form the White Mantle (the only enemies that drop the skin with that name on it) - and they modified the name to fit their more offensive uses for it and to fit with their name.

Or War Hammer and Magmas Arm. It is a vanilla skin as you put it that many cultures are fimilar with. The Titan's call it their Magmas Arm because it is their hammer style of choice to use and they give it a name more fitting for their uses for it and they are probably unfamilar with the "lingo" of the cultures. You find Magmas Arms in some Hidden Stashes in Pre - This is explainable too since the Charr are around attacking Ascalon at the time and they have old knowledge of the Titans (worship them actually) so they are familar obviously with the titan term for the weapon.

Gaint Slayer's hammer vs. Swamp Club vs. Ram's Hammer. Obviously the people familar with the Gaint tpyes weilding it would call it by Gaint Slayer's hammer because they know it is the hammer of choice for gaints that slay people. Someone unfamilar with this, like the Northern Shiverpeak people drop it as Ram's Hammer just went off its looks for the skin - A Ram's Head at the end. They have no knowledge of the Gaints using them so could never make this connection. Swamp Club if you remember is a rare Undead drop for the skin. For someone looking upon Undead weilding them, they can make the connection of undead in swamps to the usage of the weapon - Thus Swamp Club - a CLub (hammer) used by the creatures of the swamp.

I could go through and Justify EVERY LAST EXAMPLE you gave on the first page using actual FACT about drops and have it all match and fit with the Lore of Guild Wars in a rational fashion.

This all sums up my point that it isn't anything needing to be "fixed" as fixing it would ruin the level of depth that can be created through the naming conversion.

Chewbacca Defense · Aug 22, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Also Introducing new weapon skins in cantha would be the same as introducing new skins in Tyria, unless you're suggesting the platforms for the two campaigns are wholly different..-_-;;

I see your point. If they are the same platform then it would be a relatively minimal work effort to bring over the new skins - though I'm still guessing it would require 1-3 FTE to do this or $5-$10k USD. This estimate is a gross cost that includes employee time, benefits, maintenance, etc...

However, keep in mind that something as trivial as adding new skins requires testing. The QA team for ANet, from the credits, looks to be about 100 or so people. The addition of new skin requires testing on all levels. For example, you'll need to test the art in all locations, different combinations of off-hands and weapons, the physics of the item, etc...

I worked on the game SSX Tricky and all the combinations of bolt-ons (items) ranged in the level of about 7 million. QA had to test that all possible combinations of the skins. So for ANet, I can understand the need not to release new skinned content, as the amount of testing would be enormous.

Although it doesn't seem possible, it is possible that a particular off-hand can have a graphic defect if it is paired with a particular weapon. Things like this do occur.

Loviatar · Aug 22, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mournblade

So it bothers you THAT MUCH that there is a krytan axe and a hand axe with the same skin that you'd rather ANet fix those than introduce totally new skins? I think you have it good to have nothing better to complain about.

i would love to have a life so wonderful that something this small is enough to complain about (and bitterly as well it seems)

so there is not a unique skin for each and every item in the game .

so what

actually i didnt notice that as i was playing the game instead of playing find a skin duplicate.

so to answer your earlier question as to if i think leaving the game incomplete by not adding a few more skins the answer is this

*since in my opinion that is a non issue for game completeness it simply does not apply.................now if the axe was MISSING (INVISABLE AXE) that would be incomplete*

i wonder how much i could get for an invisable axe anyway?

any bids?

YunSooJin · Aug 22, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Former Ruling - your arguments have been so wholly absurd I did not really feel like having to explain to you why I think you are wrong.

I have never played another RPG type game before guild wars that had the audacity to claim that having repeat weapon skins FOR DIFFERENT NAMES - which coincidentally indicate they are DIFFERENT WEAPONS, not simply BS reasoned out crap that you're submitting to me.

I'd really love to hear an ANET rep come here and tell me that the same skins + different names is a FEATURE, not a neglected problem.

But I doubt they will, because anyone here who isn't willfully blind could not say with a straight face that this is not a deficiency to an otherwise excellent game.

Former Ruling · Aug 22, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Former Ruling - your arguments have been so wholly absurd I did not really feel like having to explain to you why I think you are wrong.

I have never played another RPG type game before guild wars that had the audacity to claim that having repeat weapon skins FOR DIFFERENT NAMES - which coincidentally indicate they are DIFFERENT WEAPONS, not simply BS reasoned out crap that you're submitting to me.

I'd really love to hear an ANET rep come here and tell me that the same skins + different names is a FEATURE, not a neglected problem.

But I doubt they will, because anyone here who isn't willfully blind could not say with a straight face that this is not a deficiency to an otherwise excellent game.

Wow, someone came to a forum to express his ideas, and forums are a cruel place, so when everyone posts in his little thread COMPLETELY makes a joke out of his argument he does what anyone his age (acted age, I dont care how old you are) would do and just turns it into a Mud-Slinging Fight by coming back to every fact and rational argument against you with "Ur SToopid!@!@@!!one!@! And Im Write!@!"

Its a good way to get a otherwise decent thread closed in fear of a flame war when someone not as nice as me decides to get finally annoyed with it.

EDIT: I'll humor your argument further to not look offtopic.

Atleast Guild Wars has a rational for weapons with the same skin. I've played games where almost every sword is just generic "Sword" with different mods.

The thing isnt feature vs convenience for them. Its the fact that you plainly claimed that these weapons with the same skin RUINED the game for you (its only a HALF game because of it apparently), when I showed you there is a good reason they have different names...It Fits. Doesn't matter if they were too lazy to skin them - Because the product we have WORKS - It all fits and noone but you seems to have a problem with it. I rather LIKE this compared to more garbage skinning that takes their time away from more productive updates.

It might be different if it was such a rampent problem...but these are isolated cases that actually have a REASON for having different names because of cultural influences and such. It adds something to the lore to me. it isn't like every Axe is a generic skin with different stats - there are just skins that are called different stuff in different regions (like Krytan Axe, Hand Axe). Hand Axe has a new skin BTW - Which is the same thing backwards, two skins on the same name - like War Hammer - and AGAIN it works into the lore just fine because of where they drop and the name itself is pretty mundane.

Also its fine to justify something INGAME with something like I did. Its about the only way to justify some things. I don't think the skin of some random weapon fits into a "Business Model" type argument...

(BTW, I wanted to ask how you came to the conclusion that Different Name means Different Weapon? Aren't there TONS of things in real life called different things in different regions?)

Chewbacca Defense · Aug 22, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I have never played another RPG type game before guild wars that had the audacity to claim that having repeat weapon skins FOR DIFFERENT NAMES - which coincidentally indicate they are DIFFERENT WEAPONS, not simply BS reasoned out crap that you're submitting to me.

Not to create an animosity, but here's a list of RPG's where they have repeat weapon skins for different names:

Baldur's Gate Series

Icewind Dale Series

Neverwinter Nights Series

Quest for Glory Series

Pretty much the entire SSI line of RPGs

etc...

Not that it's acceptable, but it is a common "feature" in the industry.

lyra_song · Aug 22, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Former Ruling - your arguments have been so wholly absurd I did not really feel like having to explain to you why I think you are wrong.

I have never played another RPG type game before guild wars that had the audacity to claim that having repeat weapon skins FOR DIFFERENT NAMES - which coincidentally indicate they are DIFFERENT WEAPONS, not simply BS reasoned out crap that you're submitting to me.

I'd really love to hear an ANET rep come here and tell me that the same skins + different names is a FEATURE, not a neglected problem.

But I doubt they will, because anyone here who isn't willfully blind could not say with a straight face that this is not a deficiency to an otherwise excellent game.

Go play some older RPGS. Recycled and recolored skins are very common. Incredibly common. Hell...i used to play RPGs where weapons are just icons. And they recycle those.

-------------------

I love the Hand Axe/Krytan Axe/ White Scythe. I have 4. 3 are Hand Axes, and 1 is a White Scythe.

If tommorow, Anet decided "finish" the "unfinished" weapons, as you claim they are unfinished, and my Hand Axes suddenly changed skins to something else, i will be VERY VERY angry. If my Wingblade suddenly changed skin, i will be very angry.

Did you ever think about people who actually like the skins of their weapons, even if they have multiple names?

--------------------

My question. Why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO does it matter so much to you? Do you hate the skins that badly?

YunSooJin · Aug 22, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

EDIT:
Guild Wars isn't an "older RPG" - it should be a "new" RPG - and better than the "older" ones.

Answer to Lyra's question:

It's bothered me ever since I was a newbie to this game.
I'm not even really asking for a new skin for each weapon - I'm asking for a new skin for each repeat weapon.

I mean really - a Ram's hammer should look like a ram's head, right? But it doesn't make sense something called a Swamp Club or a Giant Slayer's Hammer does so as well.

I basically come here asking for some support on what would be an admittedly small change (apart from asking them to nerf touch rangers or introduce new maps and huge amounts of content) and I base my argument on principle.

Instead I have people flaming me because 'it doesn't matter that much' 'what is your problem' 'anet is SO poor they can't do anything unless you give them more money' etc.

I mean c'mon people, do you like being ripped off? No one should even have to come to forums and put up posts like I have - this kind of thing should not even be a problem.

But it is - and its puzzling why the problem is still around even after a year.

Loviatar · Aug 22, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I'd really love to hear an ANET rep come here and tell me that the same skins + different names is a FEATURE, not a neglected problem.

out of simple curiosity have you noted the trend in responses?

i and others responding simply do not consider this to be a problem at all.

on the other hand you seem to think that a few more item skins will make the game *finished/complete* and without those few skins (which none of the rest of us miss) your whole gameplay experience seems to be seriously dampened.

since this will undoubted happen as we move on from chapter to chapter i suggest a long serious consideration before buying future chapters

YunSooJin · Aug 22, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Just to make this clear - from all the negative feedback from this thread:

We have people saying several things:
1) Anet doesn't have the resources
2) Prophecies is an 'old version' so therefore cannot be updated without major resources
3) Having WEAPONS WITH DIFFERENT NAMES and SAME SKINS adds depth to gameplay, does not remove it.
4) Just because ANET states they aren't doing major changes to Tyria means they cannot fix small old problems
5) If I criticize ANET in any way I get flamebait from the resident ANET Defender Force (TM).

And Fyi Loviatar - just because you crazy forum posters spam me with negative messages does not mean this thread has gotten its fair share of people reading and debating it - it just means trolls like you enjoy misquoting me and extrapolating mysterious opinions of 'mine' that you get from God Knows Where.

AnnaCloud9 · Aug 22, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

First and foremost:
Each chapter is a standalone game, no matter how you dice it up, and therefor the business model ANet is pursuing here is valid.

Consider your copy of Prophecies an aged version of Windows, say...Windows 3.1? Now, when was the last time your copy of Windows 3.1 received numerous fun, non-essential operating updates from Microsoft? And which product do you think these non-essential updates went to? Perhaps your Windows XP version? Prophecies is NOT a broken product based on your complaint.

Consider this: When I purchased Guild Wars in April 2005, before it was even Prophecies, I had the minimal amount of content the game had to offer. During the last year, it has grown and underwent so many aesthetic and non-essential changes that even today it seems like a whole new experience in many places. Now, if you (or anyone) purchases this product well after its inception, you're essentially missing all the updates and changes because you've already absorbed these things we call updates and additions into the 'normal' mode of play, whereas those of us from April-June 2005 have the sense of feeling that our original product has seen some great bonus material. And it has.

By constantly drafting and redrafting the original product, you're essentially ruining the opportunity to create a new product, and this weapon skin debate is a prime example of this. Someone mentioned this above me (sorry), and it's true - if you want the new weapon skins, purchase the new product. You're not paying a monthly fee, therefor you're not getting monthly eye candy. And really isn't that what this is all about? If not, please explain to me how my Battle Axe does the same damage and effects as your Great Axe.

YunSooJin · Aug 22, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

First and foremost:
Each chapter is a standalone game, no matter how you dice it up, and therefor the business model ANet is pursuing here is valid.

Consider your copy of Prophecies an aged version of Windows, say...Windows 3.1? Now, when was the last time your copy of Windows 3.1 received numerous fun, non-essential operating updates from Microsoft? And which product do you think these non-essential updates went to? Perhaps your Windows XP version? Prophecies is NOT a broken product based on your complaint.

Consider this: When I purchased Guild Wars in April 2005, before it was even Prophecies, I had the minimal amount of content the game had to offer. During the last year, it has grown and underwent so many aesthetic and non-essential changes that even today it seems like a whole new experience in many places. Now, if you (or anyone) purchases this product well after its inception, you're essentially missing all the updates and changes because you've already absorbed these things we call updates and additions into the 'normal' mode of play, whereas those of us from April-June 2005 have the sense of feeling that our original product has seen some great bonus material. And it has.

By constantly drafting and redrafting the original product, you're essentially ruining the opportunity to create a new product, and this weapon skin debate is a prime example of this. Someone mentioned this above me (sorry), and it's true - if you want the new weapon skins, purchase the new product. You're not paying a monthly fee, therefor you're not getting monthly eye candy. And really isn't that what this is all about? If not, please explain to me how my Battle Axe does the same damage and effects as your Great Axe.

Well Anna, what I'm trying to say that is new weapon skins should have been included in the first place.

I'm not really asking for a "new feature" - the way I see it I am asking for something that should have been done. If ANET truly wanted to ignore each preceding chapter, why have they introduced the dynamic update system?

The changes I'm asking for isn't a redraft. It isn't even a massive overhaul of the old game. This is something I expected to come along as a newbie, but never materialized. I admittedly told myself that they were up to more important things, but ANET has decided to introduce new weapon skins for cantha and fow/uw. Why not Tyria? Shouldn't new weapon skins be there first?

It doesn't completely ruin my gameplay that there are repeat weapon skins. But I still feel it is wrong for ANET to do that to us. I mean, they obviously felt bad about Tormentors and Gladiators (or the whiny playerbase made them feel bad). Either way, there is a double standard here, and I just feel like it is a valid point.

I really do not see how this is any different from people crying to have their glad's and tormentor's armor updated - and I don't remember seeing anyone against that.

Loviatar · Aug 22, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

And Fyi Loviatar - just because you crazy forum posters spam me with negative messages does not mean this thread has gotten its fair share of people reading and debating it - it just means trolls like you enjoy misquoting me and extrapolating mysterious opinions of 'mine' that you get from God Knows Where .

FIRST LETS CLEAR SOME THINGS UP.

1 I DID NOT MISQUOTE YOU OR ALTER THE QUOTE IN ANY WAY.

2 AS FOR TROLLING GO BACK AND YOU WILL SEE (UNEDITED) THAT WHILE DISAGREEING WITH YOU I WAS POLITE

/motion to close the troll OP thread now

capitalist · Aug 22, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Agree with Yun on this one. ANET should take the 8 hours of time and update the skins on those Prophecies items.

Alias_X · Aug 22, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Seeing as what matters when you complete PvE is armor and skins, maybe they should have payed more attention to it at the time?

I really don't care about it. So your Dwarven and Break hammers look the same, DEAL with it.

Anet has to worry about completely new games every 6 months, do you realize how much of a burden that is?